Warrior Forum-Leading Internet Marketing Forum or Asylum of Delusion?
The Warrior Forum is the biggest internet marketing forum on the internet. It divides opinion among everyone who ever tried to "make money online".
This page will take a look at some of the evidence and come to a firm conclusion-one which may help you to save a significant amount of time and money and, perhaps, even make some money online.
You are encouraged to share your experience of the Warrior Forum below by posting your comments. Your comments can be of enormous assistance in helping other, particularly gullible, naive, newcomers to internet marketing to avoid being scammed on the Warrior Forum.
If You Have Spent the Last 12 Months on the Warrior Forum, Don't Read This Page-It Will Break Your Heart
Warrior Forum Main Section-Some Serious Delusion Going On Here
The main section of the Warrior Forum is peopled by people like Paul Uhl, aka MYOB, who recently claimed to be earning $500,000,000 per year in affiliate commissions!
Yes, that is $500million per annum. Forbes 500 territory.
And yet he is generous enough to provide his time freely "helping newbies".
Read more about this one man industry on this hub.
Yet he spends all his time on the Warrior Forum peddling rubbish.
As does Alexa Smith who has never shown a scintilla of evidence of income or traffic and spends all her time on the Warrior Forum "helping newbies".
Learn more about Timothy Nagley posing as a young woman on the Warrior Forum on the Alexa Smith hub.
When you consider that these two characters are "respected warriors" on the Warrior Forum you can draw your own conclusions about how useful the Warrior Forum really is to help you make money online.
Warrior Forum Offline Marketing Discussions-Just When You Thought it Was Safe..
The Warrior Forum Offline Marketing Discussions section is a forum within a forum as the Warrior Forum is divided up into various categories or sub-forums.
Many Warrior Forum members, after being fleeced and disillusioned with the main forum, end up in the Offline Marketing Discussion section. Here they will encounter a handful of members who have positioned themselves as "experts" or "trusted sources" of information to help you provide various services to "offline" business owners.
Services you might provide to small mom and pop business owners would include websites, Facebook pages, search engine optimization (seo) services, video marketing and so forth.
The "experts" like John Durham, owner of a telemarketing forum, and Jason Kanigan, a product manager for the last 4 months at a mobility goods provider, have somehow managed to position themselves as ultra successful sales professionals.
They also happen to provide, through their Warrior Forum signature link, an opportunity to buy their product.
Now there is nothing wrong with this per se. The difficulty is that these guys are not successful sales professionals. How do I know this? Because successful sales professionals don't spend their days hanging around an internet marketing forum trying to sell downloadable ebooks for chump change.
It really is this simple and if you step outside the frenzied atmosphere of the Warrior Forum and manage to think straight for 20 seconds you will come to realize this yourself.
Do yourself a favor and do a Google search and a LinkedIn search for the profile and background of anybody whose "product" or "coaching" you are thinking of purchasing. Warrior Forum Modus Operandi-How the "Gurus" Fleece Newbies The modus operandi on the Warrior Forum is simple but powerful.
- Step 1.Newbie asks a question/requests guidance;
- Step 2. "Guru" steps in and provides "useful" and "helpful" information. And he does this on a daily basis across countless threads or discussions;
- Step 3. Newbie eventually buys the "Guru"'s product and implements the guidance;
- Step 4. Newbie makes little or no money after numerous purchases of "guru" products over a good period of time;
- Step 5. Newbie quits having spent a packet of money and wasted his time;
- Step 6. Another newbie enters the fray
- Step 7. And so it continues..
The role of the moderators in this deadly money making stance it to ensure that when somebody pipes up and voices their disquiet they are banned. The role of the moderators is critical. Without the moderators enthusiastic quelling of dissent the whole edifice may come crumbling down.
And the moderator may have to contemplate, horror of horrors, getting a real job. Warrior Forum Special Offers-The Section that Keeps on Giving! If you are bored and want a good laugh or break from real work, pop into the WSO section and check out some of the ludicrous, outlandish claims of income.
Here is one of the more muted offerings from today as I write this. Here we have two guys offering mentoring for $127 per month. Check out Joe Robinson's modest income claims and then run, don't walk, to the nearest lawnmower shop and buy a lawnmower and cut your neighbours' lawns. You will make more money and you won't have to pay $127 per month to email questions for "mentoring". (If you have $127 per month to spare, buy a tractor mower and cut more lawns!)
Robinson and his sidekick are small fry in the overall scheme of the Warrior Forum. However the case of Joe Robinson is instructive as it is typical of most of the purveyors of WSOs. Most WSO providers make whatever small change they make from peddling "how to get rich quick" schemes despite their own stunning mediocrity and/or failure in this activity.
Take a half hour or so, lock up your credit card, and read through the offers in the Warrior Forum Special Offer section. You will have the healthiest, heartiest laugh you've had in a long, long time.
The Warrior Forum WSO Section and How the Rules are Stacked Against the Buyer-WSO Rules Ensure Purchasers Fleeced
The Warrior Forum WSO (Warrior Special Offer) section is the big money spinner for owner Allen Says. But the rules mean that the chances of buying a good product are heavily stacked against you as buyer.
Here's why.. If you buy a WSO product and are unhappy or have been scammed you must take the issue up with the WSO seller directly, not through the Warrior Forum.
This is a cardinal rule of the WSO section.
And if you have not bought the product you cannot comment on it. So even if the claims made for the product are clearly ludicrous and unbelievable and unbelievable, you CANNOT comment.
However if you wish to pour praise on the product or it's creator, you can fire away..you are free to do so.
So why are you allowed to praise a WSO to the high heavens, even if you have not purchased..but cannot criticize it unless you have bought it?
This inbuilt bias in the Warrior Forum rules means that the consumer/buyer NEVER gets the full picture before he/she buys.
And if he is unhappy after purchase he must pursue directly off the forum and can be easily ignored by the product provider.
Allen Says and his cronies are not going to kill the goose that laid the golden egg..
Warrior Forum Owner, Allen Says, Uncovered-Anonymity Removed
The cloak of anonymity surrounding the owner of the Warrior Forum, Allen Says, has been uncovered.
Says full name is Clifton Allen Says Jr. Despite his determined (and to date successful) attempt to stay below the radar Jack Wadd has done some sterling detective work and blows the lid on Says identity, address, and living arrangements.
Says has his buddy and Warrior Forum moderator, Paul Myers, to thank for the unraveling of this ball of wool..
Warrior Forum Paranoia-Cold Callers Lose the Plot in Offline Forum
Here is a good example of the type of classy guys you are dealing with in the Warrior Forum.
In this thread socialentry posts
"Aight, I'm not sure where to turn to, but after 5000 dials and more then 400 pitches + there are no sales incoming. Arguably, I have no prior experience coaching or selling stuff on the phone but this is getting ridiculous.Not sure where to turn to, what are the things i can do to "troubleshoot" the situation??? What are the things I should look out for? There must be something I missed along the way that I am not doing properly. This is pure telesales by the way to the US."
iamnameless, John Durham and Ken Michaels flat out call him a liar.
They describe him as "bogus" and a "plant" because this kind of real feedback about cold calling, the method they espouse to acquire new clients in a frenzied kind of way, doesn't bear up what they are telling newbies.
Ken Michaels is man enough to apologize when social entry shows proof of his efforts. The other two "classy guys", iamnameless and John Durham show their true colors..
And earlier on another thread, this one, descends into the usual pavlovian response of John Durham describing anyone who disagrees with his viewpoint as a "hater" and iamnameless descending to his usual tirade of name calling and insults.
Just how professional these guys are you can decide for yourself.
And how much merit or credibility you can attribute to their methods or claimed success is very much open to debate also.
Frankly I don't buy it-I think they are striclty small time trying to hustle newbies into the telemarketing forum membership (Durham) or "free consulting" (to be parlayed into the exchange of cold hard cash) in iamnameless's case or "consulting" services in the case of Jason Kanigan.
(Check out Kanigan's profile and career on LinkedIn)
Warrior Forum Censorship-Free Speech Suppressed-Too Much Money at Stake
Censorship of dissenting and questioning voices in the Warrior Forum is a feature.
Nobody quite knows what the relationship of the moderators is to the owner of the forum (allegedly Allen Says-perhaps a pseudonym?) but the speed with which the mods delete complaints and ban members who complain is impressive, if you are impressed with censorship and the quelling of freedom of speech.
However it is not just moderators who wish to avoid debate. Members with significant interests in continuing to flog their rubbish "products" (ranging from ebooks to "coaching" to video programs) also avoid any serious debate about methods of making money online unless the debate is along "approved lines".
Take a look at the cult like, group think reaction of people like John Durham and "iamnameless" when anyone questions the efficiency or effectiveness of cold calling.
The standard response is for Durham to describe the contrary view holder as a "hater" and iamnameless's standard response is a tirade of personal insults.
Jason Kanigan-A Remarkable Transformation-From Job Hunting to Sales Trainer?
Jason Kanigan's website at www.kanigan.ca makes for interesting reading.
For example in this post-http://www.kanigan.ca/blog/recareered-in 28th July 2011 you will see that Jason was working like crazy..writing an operations manual for a used auto parts business and other writing jobs.
Note what he says here: "I'm plugging away at a little google-based writer website for myself".
And in April 2011, which you can check out here-http://www.kanigan.ca/2011/04-you will see that Jason was looking for a job.
Don't get me wrong-there is nothing wrong with this.
What's wrong is that within 12 months Jason rocks up to the Warrior Forum and positions himself as some sort of sales training guru. He then goes ahead and creates his own "products" and charges newbies and others top dollar for "consulting".
To any sane person, this is madness. What do you think? For fuller screenshots of what Jason actually had to say in April and July 2011, not long before he rolled up to the Warrior Forum check out http://alexa-smith-warrior-forum-scam.typepad.com/blog/
What Gives Internet Marketers a Bad Name-Exploitative and Unethical
Here is a good example of what gives internet marketers a bad name. The context is that a warrior has a good chance of landing a good client for his services. However he has one big problem-he has no proof that he has succeeded in the past of seo success. (Source:http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-marketing-discussions/639628-what-do-you-do-when-asked-show-search-engine-optimization-proof-you-have-none.html)
However one of our heroes, Jason Kanigan, has an answer:
"This has been answered A MILLION TIMES. We have this Search button. Your prospect usually has no freakin' idea how SEO works. So go find a low competition keyword phrase that you can easily rank #1 with. Get that domain. Rank away. Then when they ask, get them to search for "cat underwear" or whatever silly thing it is. It won't matter that nobody is searching for that term--90%+ of the people you'll talk to will be impressed. Just get on with it."Jason
Is this how a professional operates? Or a snake oil salesman?
If your mom or pop or brother or sister was the small business owner being sold this type of unethical, unprofessional, grab the money quick service..would you be happy?
The Warrior Forum just keeps on giving.. So does the Alexa Smith Warrior Forum Scam Blog-learn more about Jason Kanigan here.
The Verge Expose of Poster Boy Frank Kern-Get Rich Quick Schemes Mutate into Monster
Joseph L. Flatley over at the Verge has done a superb expose of Frank Kern, one of the poster boys of the internet marketing world, and it is well worth a read.
It is a long one but worth taking the time.. You can check it out here.
How to Build Fake Credibility on the Warrior Forum-Volunteer to be "Interviewed" by Another Warrior
In this thread http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-marketing-discussions/560595-calling-all-experts.html member dwalter is looking for "Warrior Experts" to volunteer to be interviewed.
Jason Kanigan volunteers for the "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" piece to be interviewed and then points to this interview as being credible evidence of his expertise.
Sorry Jason but only in the perverted internet marketing world that you live a Walter Mitty type existence is this pointed to as credible evidence of expertise.
In the real world, it takes a little more than this.
iamnameless-nugget of wisdom (July 24th 2012) "Keep calling, dial faster".. in response to the poster who had cold called 55 small business owners and got 55 "no"s!
To Do Before Entering the Warrior Forum
1. Leave your credit card locked away
2. Bring a healthy degree of skepticism
3. Do your due diligence (for example, Google some of the characters you read about here and see what comes up)
Annie Pot of the Warrior Forum-Article Marketer or Video Guru or..?
Annie Pot claims to be an article marketer who syndicates her content widely in the same manner as Alexa "Scammer" Smith and thanks Smith at every available opportunity..and there are many as Smith spends his days on the Warrior Forum.
But is Annie Pot actually an article marketer or does she just exploit newcomers to the Warrior Forum with offers to supply them with the content that she and Smith claim they will need?
You will get the answer here.
Jason Kanigan on YouTube-Recruitment Consultant or Sales Training Guru?
You decide-in April, 2011 "Brian" tells us how good Jason Kanigan's ebook on getting a job is.
In September, 2011 the same dude tells us how good a sales training guru he is. Brian is clearly a "fan" :-)
UPDATE DECEMBER 2012
It was brought to my attention that Kanigan's testimonials, for both his expertise as a recruitment consultant and as a sales trainer, were fake. The Brian referred to above is a dude on Fiverr.com who will record a video for $5 saying just about anything.
Not only did Kanigan delete his YouTube account as a result of this "embarrassing" disclosure it was also brought to his attention that the Federal Trade Commission may be interested in fake testimonials.
Because they are illegal.
You can learn more about Kanigan's fake testimonial videos elsewhere on this site.
John Durham-Cold Calling Superstar? But why does he spend ALL his time on the WF?
John Durham has described himself many times as a "cold calling superstar". He gives freely of his "advice" which invariably is about "dialling for dollars".
When questioned about the effectiveness and efficiency of this method of marketing he invariably goes on the defensive and insults and questions the integrity of the questioner.
His stock response is to
1) boast some more about his (imaginary) success and
2) calls them a "hater".
Yet in a recent thread Adrian Browning hit the nail on the head when he said:
"So that is your "profession" you are a trainer. So what you are saying is, you DON'T own a brick and mortar business.. You have no employees.. You have no "experience" on the very thing you are "training" others to do? You are nothing but a Forum Marketer. A Forum Salesman. So then what qualifies you to train other's who have REAL BUSINESSES? Who are you to tell another person how to find more clients? Because you aren't even Cold Calling yourself.. all your clients are on this very forum. Which is why you are online for the whole entire day. Tell me John when was the last time you left your house? Tell me the last time you made a sale that did not originate from this forum? What makes you think it is right to tell another person to partake in a practice that you have no experience in whatsoever? Again and again I have blown holes in your theories.. Now I see why.. It's because you don't actually know the first thing about Cold Calling and people can't defend something which they are not familiar with. You don't know what it takes to run a business. You are a fraud. You don't understand what marketing is, which is why you respond with unintelligent babble over and over again. I've met your type before. and what you are doing is sick and disgusting." Source: Warrior Forum Offline Section
To make up your own mind as to how successful John Durham actually is take a look at the number of posts he makes and the number of threads he starts.
As Browning states above all Durham is trying to do is get people to join up his "telemarketing forum". (Check out his telemarketing forum for yourself and see how inactive and dead it actually is)
If you were a cold calling superstar, if you were able to make sales easily via the phone, if you were able to provide training to others on a successful basis, would you spend all your time on the Warrior Forum "helping others"? Is John Durham telemarketer a champion or self deluded braggart?Click on the link to find out more.
John Durham's Method of Dealing with Dissatisfied Customers-Call them "Haters"
John Durham has a consistent but infantile way of dealing with anyone who disagrees with him or questions him.
He simply calls them "haters".
In this thread http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-marketing-discussions/642131-greatest-concept-offline-usp-money-back-guarantee.html the member ginnysclub1 makes the following perfectly reasonable point:
"I don't know about trusting you with refunding a $1500 item because I couldn't get a $24 item refunded for The Bower Report John, after sending you direct messages requesting information about top ranking Google affiliate status which I didn't understand and you didn't reply so i asked for a refund which and again you didn't reply. This is not a malicious statement. This is a fact. I have proof of direct messages sent simply requesting for more information. You can't prove that you replied because you didn't bother." Source: Warrior Forum
And John Durham's response? The old haters trick: "Looks like we have haters here... I dont know that they are even real customers."
This statement speaks volumes and the use of language is instructive.
Because "we" don't have haters here-you simply have a customer who reasonably sought a refund from you on the basis of your personal guarantee.
But by using "we" John Durham sends out a subliminal message for support from other Warrior Forum members who make money off the back of people like ginnysclub1. And by calling them "haters" he is implying that these are just cranks and losers and to be ignored, ganged up on and scorned.
Durham's Frenzy of Thread Creation-Durham-Will Do Anything to Maintain his Profile on the Warrior Forum
Durham can't be too busy these days. A look at the number of threads he has created in the last week alone show someone who is winding up for another "great WSO" with..who else but Jason Kanigan.
Anybody running any sort of business is not creating threads on the Warrior Forum at the rate Durham is. Anyone running a successful business is not on there at all..apart from the search for laughs. In fact, as I write this Durham has the following threads running, most of which have been started in the last week:
- Greatest Concept for "Offline" USP.."Money Back Guarantee?"
- Hmmmmmph....Warrior...(roll eyes).
- Can I Really Make a Sale..?
- Marketing for Ministers...
- Free Offline Report...
- New to WF or Marketing?..
- Do you need investment capital?
- War Music...
- Have you ever got to do something...
And on it goes. All of these threads are designed to simply drum up new business and interest in the upcoming WSO with Jason Kanigan and others. Not to genuinely help others-because when "others" bite and look for a refund you can see what happens..
Durham is simply a forum marketer, not a successful business man in the real world. Just how much "value" he can provide to anyone who is interested in building a real business is pretty clear: none.
John Durham's Big Girl Whinge-He Doesn't Like the Vibe in the Offline Forum Now!
John Durham, who has singlehandedly attempted to turn the offline forum into the "cold calling forum" because it suits his particular purpose (flogging WSO's about cold calling), has indulged himself with a big old whinge today.
He has started this thread-http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-marketing-discussions/645993-has-anyone-noticed-strange-vibe-going-offline-subforum-lately.html-to give vent to his paranoia because other people want to discuss methods other than interrupting people with cold calls.
And he rounds up the usual suspects to aid and abet him in quelling the rioting natives who adopt the usual kneejerk response..along with some suspiciously "new members" of the forum. (Check out Alanis Morissette whose story is a doozey)
The Usual Closing of Ranks on the Warrior Forum-October 2012
The usual closing of ranks on the Warrior Forum took place this week with Paul Myers and content sellers on the Warrior Forum ganging up on one of the few sane, critical, questioning voices on the forum in a long time. You can read more about it here and on this lens.
The guy, GMD, referred to in this latest example of Warrior Forum censorship closing ranks was soon banned..but not before he obtained all of the necessary screenshots from the thread. You can read more about this at http://www.theantiwarrior.com-it is worth taking a look at and I wish him all the best with it and look forward to new information exposing the seedy underbelly of "internet marketing".
Customer Service Warrior Forum Style-Tiffany Dow-"Respected Warrior" Berates Newbie Customer
Tiffany Dow (Cow?), a "respected Warrior" on the Warrior Forum, demonstrated her idea of customer service at the weekend.
She started a thread on the Warrior Forum berating a newbie customer for contacting her seeking supplementary assistance to lacerate the "ungrateful newbie" in a public forum.
To make matters worse Dow published a blog post and video on her own blog excoriating the customer and to add insult to injury she betrayed her client's trust by disclosing her identity and location.
Dow seems to think this sort of behavior is acceptable and judging by the number of fellow warriors who approved of her action so do many wanna be marketers on the Warrior Forum. Well get this: a customer is a customer is a customer.
It does not matter how much that customer has spent with you or that you are a "busy lady". The customer still placed her trust in you and is entitled to expect, at a minimum, that her trust was not misplaced. Sadly this is not the case with Dow.
And making further self excusing, self regarding videos or blog posts doesn't change a thing. Read more about this here.
Warrior Forum Verdict
Look, the Warrior Forum is a loaded dice. It's a crooked game.
The only people making money in internet marketing courtesy of the Warrior Forum are 1. the owner of the forum through advertising revenue and fees charged to every two bit "marketer" selling rubbish to gullible newbies and 2. the two bit "marketers" selling rubbish Warrior Forum Special Offers (WSOs) about "how to make money online" to gullible newbies.
The reality is that the tiny percentage of people who are making money on the Warrior Forum are doing so by selling "make money online" ebooks and so called "products" to newbies. Regrettably there seems to be a plentiful supply of victims lending truth to the saw that "there is one born every minute".
Don't be one of them.
End of 2012-Where Are They Now? 2013 Promises to Be Interesting
So, at the end of an interesting year for the Warrior Forum and it's collection of chancers it is worth taking a look back and see what has changed, if anything.
1) Joe Robinson, referred to above in the Warrior Forum Special Offers module saw the light and in a conversion that would put St. Paul on the road to Damascus to shame "came over" to the other side. The side of the angels.. He can now be found on www.theantiwarrior.com and at his own site, http://letstrollawarrior.com, pouring scorn on his former Warrior Forum "friends".
2) Jason Kanigan has taken down his YouTube channel when he was exposed as creating fake video reviews (see http://alexa-smith-warrior-forum-scam.typepad.com/blog/2012/12/jason-kanigans-fake-video-reviews.html) of his own services and products (and I use those terms very loosely) and recognized that the Federal Trade Commission takes a dim view, to put it mildly, of fake reviews.
3) John Durham has been the subject of extensive (unwanted) coverage on the this useful little site http://alexa-smith-warrior-forum-scam.typepad.com/blog/2012/10/john-durham-telemarketing-superstar-or-braggart.html and on theantiwarrior.com site and threatedned to disappear towards the end of the year. Regrettably he didn't and in this thread http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-marketing-discussions/726831-john-durham-entrepreneur-telemarketing-expert-warrior-owner-many-failures.html he attempted an amateurish damage limitation exercise. However future devastating information is promised by Jack Wadd of theantiwarrior.com site so that is worth keeping an eye on.
4) Timothy Nagley aka Alexa Smith continues to thrive on the Warrior Forum with the protection of Paul Myers, who is hopelessly conflicted by his involvement in so called "article syndication" and will continue to thrive thanks to the old maxim that there is "one born every minute".
Joseph Robinson, Warrior Forum "Insider" Comes Clean-5,053 Posts, Thanked 3,341 Times-Banned
Joseph Robinson, a Warrior Forum "insider" has been predictably banned from the Warrior Forum. (January 4th, 2013)
Robinson spent over 12 months running with the "content syndication" crowd and going along with the make believe and lies peddled on the Forum. Robinson today posted a long "mea culpa" post which was, of course, immediately deleted and saw Robinson banned.
Robinson did the decent thing first and apologized and for this he should be commended. You won't read what he said on the Warrior Forum..but you can read it on his own site here: http://letstrollawarrior.com/the-one-real-internet-marketing-lesson-that-will-save-your-ass/ Or you can read the full post on the Alexa Smith Warrior Forum Scam blog.